dalit fury?
Just a couple of days ago a violent and ugly scene was enacted in the premises of the prestigious Chennai ‘Ambedkar law college’. The problem is alleged to have started after the name of Ambedkar was dropped/deleted/ignored in some posters. Dalit students were shown in the clippings aired repeatedly on Tamil TV channels, as perpetrators of mass violence. True, about three or four of those guys beat another young man to a pulp. Sentiments have been aroused. Tears stand in the rims of viewing eyes. Angry fumes suffocate pained hearts. “how sad” croon soap watchers. Indignant and righteous fingers type letters to editors or blog if they can.
The mass reaction to this incident has now turned into sympathy for the ‘devar’ caste persons who got the beating. Even those secular,eclectic intellectuals who pretend to distance themselves from casteism feel sorry for these `devar’ boys. It is no more a sympathy for the loser in a fight. It is not just a human empathetic concern for a beaten and bruised man. It is a silent anger that ‘those’ guys have found the guts to beat ‘these’ or ‘our’ boys. It is a silent fear that screams in their minds that if these dalits are allowed to get away with this act of retaliation, then slowly they would try to come up and even sit in our temples!
Whether dalit or devar those boys had no right to gang up and beat with murderous rage. They ought to be punished. But just because those devar boys have been beaten up badly they cannot be absolved either. They were the ones who were supposed to have started the fight. There are even some visuals showing one of those devar boys running amok with a knife in hand.
I just wonder what would have been the reaction if that boy had managed to chop off all those who came to attack him? Would all these tears still flow for the dalit boys had they been killed?
The whole episode is shocking the public because the hitherto trampled dalit boys have dared to fight back. We are simply not used to seeing this. It satisfies our intellectual itch to feel sorry that dalits have separate living quarters, separate vessels to drink. We nod in apparent understanding and pseudo-sympathy that dalits have been barricaded away from mainstream by a real brick and mortar wall. We are simply used to these guys being trampled. We have become so insensitive to the casteist curse on the society that the painful screams of dalits just gets lost in the air and never registers even as a whimper in our ears. their men were made to eat shit, their women stripped, their children not allowed to play in some areas, they were not allowed to move freely, at times they werenot even allowed to take their dead to their cemetry via the shortest route. we knew all this, and we were silent. we were feeling ‘bad’! Now a group of those boys have taken sticks in their hand and beaten their opponent who had allegedly cut off one of the dalit boy’s ears. This is shocking.
Pragya and her prohit connections are not so shocking. Manmohan singhs shameless licking of bush is not repulsive. Karunanidhi’s constant political stunts are not worrying. Just the fact that dalit boys have dared to fight is shocking.
I am not like the BJP RSS gang that says godmen/whatever those goons in spiritual garb are called should be protected even if they bomb public places. I want those boys- those dalit boys to be punished. I also want people to feel that though they may have over-reacted, they reacted. It is time to think on ways to end provocations instead of crying over reactions.
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Dr.Rudhran's blog 
November 18, 2008 at 12:04 pm
செக்ஸ் மட்டும் தான் காரணமா?இந்த இடுக்கையை பற்றி உங்கள் கருத்துகளை எதிர்பார்க்கிறேன்.
ஆங்கிலத்தில் இருந்தாலும் பரவாயில்லை
November 18, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Nice View
November 18, 2008 at 3:50 pm
this is the view i endorse
உயர்ந்தவன், தாழ்ந்தவன் என்று சாதி ரீதியாக பிரித்து பயிற்றுவித்திருக்கும் பார்ப்பனியத்தின் விளைவாக நடக்கும் இந்தக் கொடுமைகளுக்கு இதுவரை விடிவில்லை என்பதை ஏற்றுக்கொண்டு அடுத்து வர இருக்கும் கலவரச் செய்திகளுக்காக அச்சத்துடன் காத்திருக்க வேண்டும். அல்லது இந்த வெறித்தனத்தைத் தடுத்து நிறுத்த களத்தில் இறங்கி நம்மால் இயன்றதனைத்தையும் செய்ய வேண்டும்.
களத்தில் இறங்கிச் செய்வது என்றால் அதற்கு கையில் தடியை எடுக்க வேண்டும் என்ற கட்டாயம் இல்லை. ஆதிக்க சாதியில் பிறந்த ஒவ்வொருவரும் இந்த சந்தர்ப்பத்தில் தீண்டாமை என்னும் அநீதிக்கு எதிராக உரத்துப் பேசவேண்டும். செயல்படவேண்டும். சாதி எதிர்ப்புப் பதிவுகளால் பதிவுலகம் நிறைய வேண்டும். பதிவர்களை வேண்டிக் கேட்டுக் கொள்கிறோம்.
read the article in vinavu.wordpress.com
November 19, 2008 at 11:11 am
I endorse and appreciate your views. Thanks for this post, Sir!
November 19, 2008 at 12:08 pm
nice post. but i expect more from you as renowned psychiatrist. if possible please share your analysis in psycho-sexual or psycho-social aspect. sorry. if you feel I talk more.
anyway I appreciate your post word by word sir.
thanks
jamalan.
November 19, 2008 at 12:40 pm
//I am not like the BJP RSS gang that says godmen/whatever those goons in spiritual garb are called should be protected even if they bomb public places.//
Can you please provide one sample news in which the BJP or RSS has said that people in spiritual garb should be supported for bombing public places.
You may be referring this:
Punish Sadhvi Pragya if found guilty: Advani
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/punish-sadhvi-pragya-if-found-guilt…
New Delhi, October 31: : Talking to reporters, BJP’s Prime Ministerial
candidate L K Advani said on Friday that if the controversial Sadhvi
Pragya Singh Thakur is found guilty, she should be punished.
Advani went on to say that she has nothing to do with the BJP and if
any one from any Sangh outfit found guilty of any crime that person
should be brought to book.
But earlier, party president Rajnath Singh stuck to his new line on
Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur that “an Arushi-like case was being built
up around her”, and that “those believing in cultural nationalism
cannot ever take to terror”.
The BJP president in an interview with ‘The Indian Express’ on
Wednesday had said that investigating agencies had not found any
evidence against the former ABVP activist — alleged to have a hand in
the Malegaon blasts — “a reason why they were insisting on a narco-
test”.
Sadhvi to undergo psychological tests in Mumbai
The Maharashtra Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) on Friday took Sadhvi
Pragya Singh Thakur, an accused in the Malegaon blast case, to the
forensic science laboratory in Mumbai where she will undergo brain-
mapping and polygraph tests.
Pragya will undergo brain-mapping, polygraph and lie detector tests at
Forensic Science Laboratory (FSL) in suburban Santa Cruz, ATS Director
Rukmani Krishnamurthy said.
The Nashik Court had permitted the ATS to conduct these psychological
tests on Sadhvi.
Meanwhile, Pragya’s brother-in-law Bhagwan Jha has alleged that ATS
officials physically tortured her and is planning to approach the
State Human Rights Commission (SHRC) in this regard.
“We will first move the Human Rights Commission and then the Bombay
High Court demanding an inquiry to be set-up in this matter as Pragya
is being falsely implicated in this case,” Jha said.
Thakur, a former ABVP office bearer, was picked up by the ATS.
‘Terrorism compounded by illegal migration’
L K Advani on Friday said the problem of terrorism in Assam has been
aggravated by illegal migration and asked Prime Minister Manmohan
Singh what steps his Government had taken to protect states and
citizens.
Describing yesterday’s serial bomb blasts in the state as
unprecedented, Advani said “I ask the prime minister, who is elected
from Assam, what has his government done after the Supreme Court’s
landmark judgement on the IMDT Act indicting the Government of India
for having colluded with external aggression”.
Stating that he wanted POTA back, he told the media here, “Article 355
imposes on the Centre to protect states against external aggression.
Has the government taken a single step to discharge its duties as
outlined by the Supreme Court?
“The government only incorporated all those provisions in the struck
down IMDT (Illegal Migrants Dermination by Tribunals) in the
Foreigners Act, which the Supreme Court declared as unconstitutional”,
he said after visiting the blast sites in Guwahati and meeting the
injured in hospitals.
“I would also like to ask the PM what his response is to the mental
state of the people of Assam. How is he going to meet the challenge of
the citizens sense of insecurity and lack of security?” he asked.
Claiming that there were 3.5 crore illegal Bangladeshi migrants in the
country, he asked if the Centre had exerted pressure on Bangladesh to
take them back.
“In the media three organisations — ULFA, Bangladesh-based HuJI and
Lashkar have been mentioned as perpetrators of yesterday’s blasts.
ULFA is invariably mentioned. I do not spare the ULFA,” he said.
November 19, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Sadhwi Pragyan Chandrapal Singh Thakur says in her Nasik court affidavit *
*NASIK*
C.R. NO. I – 130/08
(RE-NUMBERED AS C.R. No. 1 – 18/08 at ATS)
*State of Maharashtra: Complainant
*
*Thru’ ATS*
V/s.
*Sadhwi Pragyan Singh Thakur & Ors: Accused
*
*AFFIDAVIT*
I, Sadhwi Pragyan Chandrapal Singh Thakur, Age 38 years, Occupation — Nil,
residing at 7, Ganga Sagar Apartment, Katodara Road, Surat, Gujarat State do
hereby state on solemn affirmation as under:
1. I say that I am a resident of Madhya Pradesh. My parents live in Surat,
Gujarat where they shifted residence a couple of years ago. I say that for
some years now, I found myself becoming increasingly detached from the
material world and correspondingly found tremendous comfort and solace in
Spiritualism. Accordingly I decided to renounce the material world and
become a Sanyasin. On 30.1.2007, after performing the appropriate Hindu
Religious rites and prayers I became a Sadhwi. I say that ever since then, I
have been residing in a ashram at Jabalpur, Madhya Pradesh. My life at the
Ashram almost exclusively consisted of prayers, meditation, yoga and the
reading of spiritual texts. At the ashram I did not watch TV channels and
had practically no access to newspapers.
2. I say that apart from my activities at the ashram, I travelled chiefly
around North India for the purpose of religious discourses and sermons. In
connection with these latter activities, between 23.9.2008 and 4.10.2008, I
was in Indore where I stayed at the residence of one Annaji who is my
disciple. In the evening of 4th October, 2008, I returned to my ashram in
Jabalpur.
3. I say that on 7.10.2008, when I was at Jabalpur Ashram, I received a call
from a police officer from the ATS, Maharashtra, called Mr Sawant, who
wanted to know about my LML Freedom vehicle. However, I told him I had sold
it long back and not concerned with it. However, he insisted me to come down
to Surat as he wanted to question me at length about it. I was reluctant to
go to Surat by leaving the Ashram and insisted for him to come down to
Jabalpur, but he refused and told me to come down to Surat as early as
possible.
4. I further say that accordingly I travelled to Surat by train via Ujjain
and arrived at Surat on 10.10.2008 early in the morning and my disciple Shri
Bhimbhai Pasricha had to receive me at Railway Station and I went to his
place at Atop Nagar.
5. I say that here at about 10 AM, I met officer Mr Sawant who had
apparently travelled to Surat to trace the ownership of a LML Freedom two
wheeler and I questioned him as to what had happened to my vehicle and why
you are asking about it. I say that I it was at this point time, Mr Sawant
told me that my vehicle had been allegedly planted with the explosives and
subsequently detonated in Malegaon in the last week of September. I also say
that it was here for the first time, I came to know that my old vehicle had
been allegedly used in Malegaon blast, which was completely shocking to me.
I confirmed to Mr Sawant that the LML Freedom 2 wheeler of the colour and
number, he mentioned had once belonged to me.
6. I say that in Surat during the course of my interrogation with Mr Sawant,
I mentioned to him that the LML Freedom two wheeler once owned by me was
subsequently sold to one Sunil Joshi of Madhya Pradesh way back in October,
2004 and that Mr Joshi had paid me Rs 24,000/- for the same. I had also
signed the necessary TT Form for RTO transfer in October, 2004 itself. I
categorically asserted to Mr Sawant that since October, 2004 I had no
control over the vehicle or its movements and usage.
7. I further say that in spite of my answers, Mr. Sawant repeatedly asked me
how the vehicle reached Malegaon and how it came to be involved in the bomb
blast on 29.9.2008. I repeatedly replied that I could not answer his
questions as I had no control of the vehicle since October, 2004.
8. I also say that Mr Sawant however informed me that he did not believe me
and that I would have to accompany him and his ATS team to Mumbai for
further interrogation and he assured me that after such interrogation I
would be free to go back to my ashram.
9. It is significant to mention that I was not formally arrested on
10.10.2008. Even though no formal summons to attend as a Witness was served
upon me to make my self available for interrogation in Mumbai, and even
though I was within my rights to insist that I be interrogated at the place
where I reside ie Jabalpur, trusting Mr Sawant and having nothing to hide, I
agreed to accompany the ATS team to Mumbai. I say Mr Sawant told me take my
father along with me. However, due to his old age, I told him it was not
proper take down him to Mumbai and suggested that my disciple, one Mr
Bhimbhai Pasricha, in whose very residence my questioning was being done by
the ATS. I further say that at 5.15 PM myself, Mr Pasricha and the ATS
officer left Surat and reached Bombay on the very night of 10.10.2008. In
Bombay I was taken straight away to the ATS office at Kalachowkie.
10. Thereafter for two days I was detained and interrogated by the ATS team
in Mumbai. The questions were repetitive and directed at somehow involving
me in the bomb blast in Malegaon on 29.9.2008. My answers remained constant
throughout.
11. I further say that on 12.10.2008 the ATS changed the mode of
interrogation and became extremely aggressive with me. At first they asked
my said disciple Mr Bhimbhai Pasricha to beat me with sticks, belts etc, on
my palms, forehands, soles, etc. When Mr Pasricha refused to do so, he was
severely beaten by the ATS. Ultimately with the greatest reluctance, he
complied with the ATS orders but obviously being my disciple, he exerted the
very minimum of force on me. He was then pushed aside by a member of the ATS
squad knows as Khanwilkar, who then himself commenced beating me severely
with a belt on my hands, forearms, palms, feet, soles, causing me bruises,
swelling and contusions in these areas.
12. I say that from the 13th onwards, I say that I was beaten during the
day, night and midnight. On two occasions I was even woken up in the early
hours of the morning at 4 am and questioned about my knowledge of the
blasts. On these occasions, I was beaten by a senior officer having a
moustache, whom I can identify. In addition I was subject to vulgar abuse
and obscene language by members of the ATS team interrogating me. My Guru
was abused and my chastity was questioned. I was physically and verbally
traumatised to the extent that I wanted to commit suicide.
13. I further say that on 14th taken out for the examination at a far away
place from ATS and was brought back in the afternoon and that I day I had no
meeting or even knowledge about Mr Pasricha.
14. I say that on 15th October, after noon, both myself and Mr Pasricha were
taken by ATS vehicles to Hotel Rajdoot in Nagpada locality of Mumbai and
were kept in Room Nos. 315 and 314 respectively and we were made to sign the
Hotel Entry register, however, we did not pay or deposit any money with the
hotel manager, which was done by the ATS.
15. I say that after putting into this hotel I was asked to make phone calls
from mobile No. 94066 00004 and from one more mobile instrument not
belonging to me to speak couple of persons including one of my female
disciple and I was asked to say that I was in a hotel in Mumbai and hale &
hearty and was doing fine. I say that at that time, I did not know why I was
made to say so. I would reveal the name of my female disciple at an
appropriate time.
16. I say that as a result of the custodial violence/torture, mental stress,
anxiety that were developed in the process, I was subjected to, I developed
acute abdominal and kidney pains. I lost my appetite, became nauseous and
giddy and prone to having bouts of unconsciousness. In view of this, within
few hours after putting in Rajdoot Hospital, I was removed from the ATS
office and was taken a hospital which learnt it to be Shusrusha Hospital
wherein I was kept in ICU. I say that within half an hour Mr Bhimbhai
Pasricha came down to Shushrusha Hospital with some ATS men and my Hospital
admission forms, and other medical examination forms, etc were signed by
him. I say that Mr Khanwilkar deposited money to the hospital management for
me, which I learnt from Mr Bhimbhai. I say that after some time Mr Pasricha
left the Hospital along with the ATS men and thereafter I have no contact
with of any nature.
17. I say that I underwent a treatment over here for 3 to 4 days. I say that
as my condition did not improve, I was taken to another hospital whose name
I cannot recall. This hospital consisted of a high rise building where I was
treated for 2 to 3 days. I say that no female police constable was by my
side either in Hotel Rajdoot or in either of the two hospitals.
18. I say that both at the hotel and the hospitals, I was carried on a
stretcher and my face was always covered with a black hood to avoid my face
from being seen. From the second hospital, I was brought back to the ATS
office at Kalachowkie.
19. I say that I was finally arrested on 23.10.2008 and produced before the
Chief Judicial Magistrate, Nasik on 24.1.2008. I was remanded to police
custody on that date till 3.11.2008. Up to the 24.10.2008 and even sometime
thereafter, I was denied access to a Lawyer or any member of my family. A
polygraph test was conducted on me while I was in illegal detention prior to
23.10.2008. Thereafter a second polygraph test was conducted on 01.11.2008.
On 04.11.2008, after I was remanded to Judicial custody on being presented
before Nasik court on 03.11.2008, I also say that a Narco analysis test was
also conducted on me.
20. I say that both the lie detector test as well as the Narco analysis test
were conducted with out my consent. Never the less all these investigative
tests have only established my innocence in the Malegaon bomb blast that
took place on 29.9.2008. I finally was allowed to meet my sister Mrs
Parthibha Bhagwan Jha on the evening of 02.11.2008, who had brought
vakalatnamas of Advocate Ganesh Sovani who was engaged by my sister and her
husband Mr Bhagwan Jha and had met him couple times in that week. This
meeting was not conducted in private since members of the ATS stood within
hearing distance of my sister and myself. I met my Advocate Ganesh Sovani
for the first time in the court room of this Hon’ble Court very briefly for
4 to 5 minutes prior to the arguments commencing on my remand application on
03.11.2008.
21. I say that this period of 4 to 5 minutes was too short for me to give
complete instructions as to what had transpired from 10th October onwards,
about my vehicle, my stay at Kalachowkie, my illegal detention, the
ill-treatment mitigated to me by ATS men, the beating job that was forced on
my disciple to beat me, but which he carried out reluctantly, without any
force, etc. I say that for this reasons, all the details had not reflected
in the hand written application that was placed on record by my advocate Mr
Sovani, for paucity of time to give all these instructions.
22. I say that on the evening of Wednesday 12.11.2008, I was allowed to meet
my Advocate Ganesh Sovani for about 5-6 minutes again in the presence of
female staff of Byculla jail. I say that again on 13.11.2008 I was allowed
to talk to my said lawyer for 8-10 minutes to give him some more details.
Thereafter, on Friday 14.11.2008 evening at about 04.30 PM, I was given
nearly 20 minutes to talk to my said lawyer at length, and it was during
this period I could narrate my entire ordeal with the ATS which is
reproduced hereinabove.
23. I unambiguously state that I am totally innocent of any offence
whatsoever. In particular I have no connection with the Malegaon bomb blast
of 29.9.2008. While my former ownership of LML Freedom 2 wheeler, which was
allegedly used in the Malegaon bomb blast entitled the ATS to interrogate
me, that agency was not entitled to subject me to the treatment mentioned
hereinabove. Their conduct discloses a blatant violation of statutory
provisions of law, custodial abuse and violence, mental and physical torture
and prolonged illegal detention. The ATS are fully aware that I am innocent.
It appears however that they have a mandate from their political superiors
to necessarily implicate me with Malegaon blasts with a view to suggest that
Hindu Religious extremists were resorting to terrorism. The prolonged
illegal detention, custodial abuse and physical torture were designed to
compel me to confess to crimes I had not committed. This attempt of false
implication persisted for the entire period between 10.10.2008 and
02.11.2008 . During this entire period I was deliberately isolated from my
family and denied access to Lawyers. I say that no arrest* panchanama* was
done after my arrest on 23.10.2008 and I was never asked about the names,
addresses and telephone / mobile Nos. details to whom I would like to convey
my arrest. I say that attention from my illegal detention was sought to be
diverted by the ATS by daily leaking information regarding my involvement
which was manifestly false and only indicated the *malafide* nature of the
investigation..
24. I say that While I was thus painted as a sinister mastermind of the
Malegaon blasts, a role which has now been subtly reassigned by the ATS to
Lt Col Purohit — crippled and vulnerable as I was by the detention, abuse
and torture, I could not protest my innocence. Nor was I allowed access to
family, friends and Lawyers who could have done so.
25. I say that it is necessary that a detailed enquiry of my illegal
detention, custodial torture, etc needs to be done and for which I am ready
and willing to get subjected to any such medical test or tests and I also
want the ATS officers, who interrogated me, tortured me, etc should also be
put to the same tests.
26. I say that the ATS has caused blatant violations of my human rights and
I should get a justice and they need to be adequately dealt with as per the
provisions of law.
27. In the circumstances I now pray for the following relief:
a) that the ATS be directed to submit an explanation for my detention
without authority of law between 10.10.2008 and 23.10.2008;
b). that enquiry/investigation be conducted into my accusation made
hereinabove on oath, regarding custodial torture/violence and mental and
psychological abuse;
c). that such investigation as referred to in (b) above, include a polygraph
test, as well as Narco analysis on me to determine the veracity of my
accusations;
d). that such investigation to include a polygraph test and narco analysis
on officers of the ATS named by me, and also of those officers whose names,
I do not know, but I can identify, for they subjecting me to mental and
physical abuse during custody as well as others to be identified by me;
e) that a report be called for from the ATS for the reasons of my admission
in two hospitals ( Shusrusha an another) and the medical treatment undergone
by me at the said two hospitals;
f) The ATS be directed to disclose the reasons for my stay at Hotel Rajdoot
at Mumbai.;
g) For such further and other reliefs as may be fit and proper in the facts
and circumstances of the case.
Filed in court on 17.11.2008
Contents Explained to the
Deponent in Hindi &
Confirmed with Deponent.
(Deponent)
November 19, 2008 at 5:56 pm
cuziyam, i am not a legal expert to opine on the alleged affidavit. BJP RSS leaders have indeed openly come out in support of malegon accused. because they are innocent or because they are non-muslims?http://communalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/frontline-malegaon-and-hindu.html see this and more in communalismwatch.
jamalan and jsundar..thank you
November 20, 2008 at 12:21 am
சட்டக் கல்லூரியில் நடந்த வன்முறையின் பின்ன்னி திட்டமிட்டு மறைக்கப்படுகிறது, தொலைக்காட்சிகளிருந்து மறைந்தாலும், வீடியோவாக கணிணி நிறுவன மின்னஞ்சல்களில் ஆங்கில முன்னுரையோடு உலவி் சாதி ஆதிக்கத்திற்கு தார்மீக ஆதரவைப் பெறவும் தலித்துக்களுக்கு எதிராக ஒரு பொதுகருத்தை உறுவாக்கும் சூழ்ச்சி நடைபெருகின்றது அதை முறியடிக்க மருத்துவர் ருத்ரனின் ” dalit fury? ”ஆங்கிலக் கட்டுரையை அனைவருக்கும் சுற்றுக்கு விடுங்கள். பொய்மையின் பேரிரைச்சலை தான்டி உண்மையின் அதிர்வுகளை உணரச் செய்வோம்.
November 20, 2008 at 12:45 am
Dear Rudhran,
I appreciate and endorse your views.
//Just the fact that dalit boys have dared to fight is shocking.// Absolutely…the fact indeed, irrespective of any given higher education or status quo…we the people of so called india can’t tolerate a little resistance of dalit students just because the casteism is been fed to us with Mother’s milk.
We had, not only physical or psychological violence but also killings in TN against people belongs to scheduled caste. During those days, we never had any media talking about it again and again ; Goodness me, not even for the sake of caste just for the human sake atleast!
November 20, 2008 at 6:47 am
Rudhran,
You write:
1. Whether Dalit or Devar, nobody has the right to beat up others mercilessly.
2. If the thevar student had chopped off a dalit student, would anybody bother? In fact, the whole tenor of this post is that people are bothered because dalits attacked non-dalits, not that one set of human beings attacked another mercilessly.
In other words, you do not distinguish between castes – for you, thevars, dalits, anybody else is equal. You only go by their actions, not their castes.
Everybody else in the world is more bothered about by the who question, rather than the what question.
Why exactly are you so superior to people like me?
November 20, 2008 at 8:10 am
RV, from the way you have written your comment it is obvious that you do understand english and are capable of using it fairly flawlessly, yet you delibarately misread to misunderstand what i say! what can be the obvious reason? your bias? your centuries old genotyping? why do people like me feel superior to people like you? only because you have a guilt and shame that your thoughts and actions are actually inferior in ethical humanistic evaluations. you feel that i am not bothered about dalits hitting non-dalits. i am very much concerned about it. i have clearly written that the whole rage is a reaction to a provocation, and you want to become a crocodile!
November 20, 2008 at 8:21 am
Rudhran,
I would love to hear how I have misunderstood your post. After all, I just took points from your post. Do you have any disagreement about the points I have taken from your post? Aren’t you saying that everyone else in the world is bothered by the who question rather than the what question?
If you did say that, the conclusions are inescapable. If you don’t say that, perhaps you are wrong in concluding that I understand English.
November 20, 2008 at 8:28 am
Oops, hit the return button before answering.
My bias? What have I said that indicates bias? Please explain.
My guilt and shame? What gives you the impression that I feel guilty or ashamed?
My genotype? What exactly do you know about my genotype?
Isn’t the first quote in my reply about what you said on whether dalits or whoever, merciless beating is to be condemened? Where do you get the point that I feel that you are not bothered about dalits beating up non-dalits? I don’t know how to make it any clearer, but my whole point is that your hypothesis that nobody except you wouldn’t give a damn about non-dalits beating up dalits.
Clearly, without any help from me, you have deduced on my genotype, bias, guilt, shame and what not. Do you these deductions can possibly indicate bias on your side?
November 20, 2008 at 8:30 am
oops, typo.
I meant to write my whole point is that your hypothesis that nobody except you WOULD give a damn about non-dalits beating up dalits. (not wouldn’t)
November 20, 2008 at 8:47 am
“whole point is that your hypothesis that nobody except you WOULD give a damn about non-dalits beating up dalits.”
i am sorry. i thought you understood english. i am sorry i thought you had brains.
November 20, 2008 at 9:02 am
I too am sorry -I didn’t have the brains to see that you wouldn’t answer one single point I raised, and just talk about my bias, genotype, brains. With you capabilities at deducing, I wish you great success in an astrology career.
November 20, 2008 at 10:33 am
I believe ignorance & over patriotism to the groups they belong is the reason for such clashes. Students must be made understand the basics of social evolution with enough proofs to establish the fact that groups (probably casts -recent term- teams) were evolved.
In my opinion cast system had evolved due to the need to specialize for the survival of human against nature. The specialization is often ignoring the common requirements which are basic for survival.
With your better understanding on such issues, you can throw lights on such matters to help the society to live in harmony.
Thanks for the oppurtunity.
November 20, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Dear Dr. Rudhran,
Vanakkam!
First of all, thank you for blogging! It is a great privilege for us to read your blogs.
When I say privilege here, just to read your blogs, I look like I am way better advantaged than thousands who cannot do so. Similarly, the brahminical genotype/phenotype has established a hierarchically privileged society where one is considering themselves better privileged than the others. It is the kind of privilege that feeds the ego and oppressive phenotype. When the under-privileged are reacting, as you rightly pointed out, it is now considered as an act of violence. Yes, it is about who rather than what. When Vanjinathan killed collector Ash it was patriotism. It was against oppression. Against the better privileged British. It was not an act of violence. Had it been ‘our’ boys hitting ‘those’ boys we, the media, we, the people, we the pseudo-socialists would be just quiet like ever before. By the way, Dr. Rudhran, if you change your career and start writing ‘reviews’ for movies and keechaka vathams, probably people like RV might want you to stay as a physician :))
Again, thank you for this post!
November 20, 2008 at 1:21 pm
thanks sudaravadivel, keechaka vatham is certainly worth writing about- many myths have to be re-examined!
November 20, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Good Post. Actually whenever Dalit + Devar Community fights it refers to southern States only. this is the 1st time (guess’) happend in Chennai, wher supperessed amy not happen more like southern. But it seems that these fights happens regularly in law colleges and was started only by devar community. even 1 guy ther any of the institite or company or office . he/she want lead that. why it happens, if someone objects he cannot bear that, thats why attacks. ….more
November 20, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Dear Dr. Rudran,
Thanks for the response.
I could only read the link that you have given, and will look at other links in the communalismwatch blog later on.
But, in that link that you have given the Shivsena has announced its “legal” help to the Sadhvi. If we ask them for reason, then they would say that they believe the accused are innocents and so require a legal support in a legal way, and their support is certainly not because they want to protect those who bombed.
They have never said // ……. …. those goons in spiritual garb are … should be protected even if they bomb public places.//
If you think that though they do not openly say so, it is their actual intention, then it is a different thing. You have all the rights and freedom to say your opinion and convictions. But, they are “your” opinion and convictions that is born out of “your interpretation and understanding”.
I respect your opinion, and hope that you have reasons to think that way. (And I am curious to know about those reasons.)
But, the first impression of your writing might lead people to mistook your understanding as the actual speech of the sangh parivar leaders. As a famous psychiatrist you know the power of words; and as a highly mature person, I am sure that you will accept this opinion.
November 20, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Did you happen to read this post? http://englishtamil.blogspot.com/2008/11/caste-i-am-not-but-i-am.html
He posted it about a week before this incident happened. You’ll be surprised to see how it matches with the reactions of these upper caste sympathisers.
November 20, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Excellent!
The boy running amok with knife was shown in the TV Channels initially and later this shot was deleted deliberately and rest of the viedo stream was broadcasted repeatedly. What purpose it will serve? It makes the spectator to take a similar wooden bar to teach those guys a lesson. The real issue is as to why Dr. Ambekar’s name was deleted from the posters and it has been suppressed cleverly and it has come to a second stage where the demand for deleting Dr.Ambedkar’s name permanently from the college like what had happened to Dheeran Sundaralingam. Those secular,eclectic intellectuals who pretend to distance themselves from casteism are supporting this demand. They have no answer when we ask the question “Would it stop future violence in Law college?” or “Didn’t any violence take place between boys belongs to these communities in any other college which was not named after Dr, Ambekar?”
November 20, 2008 at 11:24 pm
//உயர்ந்தவன், தாழ்ந்தவன் என்று சாதி ரீதியாக பிரித்து பயிற்றுவித்திருக்கும் பார்ப்பனியத்தின் விளைவாக நடக்கும் இந்தக் கொடுமைகளுக்கு இதுவரை விடிவில்லை என்பதை ஏற்றுக்கொண்டு அடுத்து வர இருக்கும் கலவரச் செய்திகளுக்காக அச்சத்துடன் காத்திருக்க வேண்டும்.//
மன்னித்துக் கொள்ளுங்கள்.
1. உயர்ந்தவன் தாழ்ந்தவன் எனப் பிரிக்கும் பாகுபாடுகள் எல்லா சமுதாயங்களிலும் இருந்தன. சிலவற்றில் இன்னும் இருக்கின்றன. இதற்கான பழியை ‘பார்ப்பனியம்’ மீது போடுவது – மிகவும் மென்மையாக சொன்னால் வரலாற்றுப்புரிதல் இல்லாதது. மனுஸ்மிருதி போன்ற அதைவிட மோசமான மத-சட்டநூல்கள் ஐரோப்பாவில் இருந்திருக்கின்றன. அரேபியாவில் இருந்திருக்கின்றன. எனவே பார்ப்பனியத்தின் மீது சாதிய சண்டைகளுக்கான பழியை போடுவது நம்முடைய கையாலாகாதத்தனம். கீழ் வெண்மணி கலவரத்தில் தலித்துகளை எரித்ததற்கு வாய்புளித்ததோ மாங்காய் புளித்ததோ எரிந்தது தலித்தோ அல்லது குடிசையோ என்கிற ரீதியில் ஈவெரா கொடுத்த அறிக்கை அவரிடமும் பார்ப்பனியம் இருந்தது என ஏற்றுக்கொள்ள வைக்குமா உங்களை? ஆப்பிரிக்க டட்ஸி-ஹூடு இனப்படுகொலைகளை எந்த பார்ப்பனியம் வந்து உருவாக்கிற்று? திண்ணியத்தில் தலித் வாயில் மலத்தை திணித்தவனின் அதிகார சக்தி அவன் சார்ந்திருந்த சாதியால் வந்ததா? அல்லது அவன் சார்ந்திருந்த கட்சியின் மூலம் அவனுக்கு கிடைத்த ஆதிக்க சக்தியால் வந்ததா? ஈவெரா உயிரோடு இருக்கும் போதே தேவர் சாதியினருக்கு திமுக அரசு செய்த சலுகைகளை திண்டுக்கல் இடைத்தேர்தலில் போஸ்டர் அடித்து அரசு விளம்பரமாக ஒட்டினார்களே அப்போது ஈவெராவின் வாயிலிருந்து ஒரு முனகல் கூட வராமல் எது தைத்து மூடிவைத்திருந்தது பார்ப்பனியமா? திராவிடியமா அல்லது ஏதாவது சைகோ-செக்ஷுவல் பிரச்சனைகளா? ஏறக்குறைய 300 க்கும் அதிகமான சமுதாயங்களை குற்றப்பரம்பரை என பிரிட்டிஷ் அறிவித்ததே அதன் விளைவுகளை இன்றைக்கும் சமுதாயங்கள் தாங்கிக்கொண்டிருக்கின்றனவே – அந்த குற்றப்பரம்பரைக் கோட்பாடு விவிலியத்திலிருந்தும் யூஜெனிக்ஸிலிருந்துமாக பெறப்பட்டவை – எனவே பார்த்திகள் இன்றைக்கும் காவல்துறையினரால் கொடுமைப்படுத்தப்படுவதையும் நரிக்குறவர்கள் மீதான வன்கொடுமைகளுக்கும் காரணமாக விவிலியீயம் அல்லது கிறிஸ்வ-ஈயம் காரணம் என சொல்வதிலிருந்து உங்களைப் போன்ற சிந்தனாவாதிகளை தடுப்பது எதுவோ? அதற்கும் ஏதாவது சைக்கோ செக்ஷுவல் காரணிகள் இருக்கலாம் ஐயன்மீர் விளம்ப வேண்டும்.
2.இந்த சைகோ-செக்ஸுவல் கதையாடல்கள் எல்லாம் எந்தவித அறிவியல் அடிப்படையும் இல்லாதவை என்பதும் அவற்றுக்கு adhoc தன்மைதான் உண்டே தவிர நிச்சயமாக அறிவியல் தன்மை கிடையாது. மொத்தத்தில் அது ஒருவித கிளுகிளுப்பை ஒருவித வாயேரிஸத்தை படிப்பவர்களுக்கு அளிக்கலாம். மேலும் ஏதோ ஒரு விதத்தில் இந்தியர்கள் பாலியல் ரீதியிலான உளவியல் குறைபாடு உள்ளவர்கள் என சொல்வதில் ஒரு திருப்தி அவ்வளவுதானே தவிர அதற்கு மேல் இதனால் சமுதாயத்துக்கோ அதனுடைய அறிவியக்கத்துக்கோ பெரிய அளவில் பயன் கிடைப்பதில்லை என்பது தான் உண்மையாக இருக்கிறது.
வார்த்தைகளில் எங்கேனும் கடுமையேறியிருந்தால் மன்னித்துக்கொள்ளுங்கள்.
அரவிந்தன் நீலகண்டன்
November 21, 2008 at 12:22 am
Dear Dr.Rudhran
I am sorry to say that your article is absolute rubbish. You have just scribbled something based on the TV clippings and press reports. Before writing on this subject you should have tried to find out at least the recent history behind this violence. For your kind information, this caste conflict has been going on for more than two decades.
The law colege students hostel in Kilpauk is an anti-social den, where all sorts of immoral activities are going on. Again for your kind information, the hostel is in the grip of dalit students, the so-called ‘oppressed’ lot. You have theatres, hospitals, garment export company, hotels & restaurants, shops & malls and apartments near the hostel. Go and ask all of them, how these ‘oppressed’ lot behave. Ask the police officers in Kilpauk G3 station, how they have been thrashed by these ‘oppressed’ lot.
These ‘opressed’ lot are given admission, hostel facilities, free food and scholarships. Go to the hostel and see how they pursue their law course.
I am aware and I accept the fact that even now dalits are discriminated against in some parts of the state (thanks to the 40 years of glorious ‘Dravidian-Racist’ regime) through denial of entry in temples, two tumbler systems in tea shops, etc. But equating these arrogant anti-law students with those poor & innocent people is wrong.
Now-a-days dalits are more powerful and VCK is the best example for that. Along with power comes money and arrogance and that is what has been exhibited in the law college incident.
Please don’t think that I am supporting BC boys. Never! They are also unruly and they too deserve the punishment. More than the boys, it is the college authorities and the government, which need to be blamed for the present sad state of affairs.
As a ‘Psychiatrist’ you should have analysed the issue from various angles and then written your article. Unfortunately, you have not done so.
Coming to your rant on RSS/BJP, I don’t think they have said anything like that and I have not seen any media report on that. It would be better if you could cite the reference. I am afraid you are simply talking through your hat.
Goons are there everywhere, not only in spiritual arena but also in many other areas. The doctors in corporate hospitals, who literally squeeze the middle class are goons; the hoteliers who charge fortunes for lousy food are goons; theatre owners, who switch off the AC immediately after the commencement of the movie are goons; the corrupt police and government officials are goons; psychiatrists, who rape their clients in the garb of consultation and counselling are also goons! Cheers!
Regards,
A.Sudhan.
November 21, 2008 at 12:31 am
ருதரன் சார்!
நிதானமான, பக்குவமான சிந்தனைகளாக இருக்கின்றன.
மக்கள் எதையும் மேலோட்டமாகவே எதையும் பார்த்து பழகியிருக்கிறார்கள்.
அதை நமது ஊடகங்கள் எளிதாக பயன்படுத்துகின்றன.
உங்கள் குரல், அவைகளை எதிர்த்து ஒலிக்கிறது.
உங்களோடு நானும் சேர்ந்திசைக்கிறேன்.
November 21, 2008 at 8:43 am
I must say i was rather suprised by your article but anyways i was impressed by your measured approach to this issue. I was totally enraged by all the venom being spewed on the dalits by the so called ‘literate masses’. The problem with our country is that people get carried by what is being presented to them by the media without any question. This incident also brought to the fore the casteist feelings people cling on to. Violence as such should be condemned but not without context and you rightly pointed out “what if he(Bharathikannan) had chopped off all those who attacked him?”. The aftermath of this has also proved the prejudicial attitude of the police and the system by arresting only dalit students and not arresting Bharathi kannan and Aarumugam. Only reminds me of Orwell’s immortal line “All animals are created equal but some are more equal than others”.
Thanks Dr.Rudhran for your astute article and yearning for more from you.
November 21, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Happy to see you in blogs.
Will discuss with you more
சிநேகத்துடன்
ஜமால் A M
November 21, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Dr. Rudhran:
Much has been written about the incident that occurred at the Dr. Ambedkar Government Law College, Chennai. The views have ranged from outrage at the brutality of the attacks seen on television to a kind of just-cause argument invoking not only the immediate provocation from the Thevar students but also the age-old caste discrimination practised in our society.
As an observer of events in Tamilnadu and someone sympathetic to the Dalit cause, I regret to say that we are missing the forest for the trees i.e. the most important lessons we can learn from such an incident for going forward. I will try and list them as below:
1. For the past ten years at least, the Thevar community has stood in the forefront of perpetrating casteist atrocities on Dalits, expressing militant opposition to any initiative that would acknowledge and honour Dalits in the public space. Because the community is electorally important to the two Dravidian parties, their retrogressive and violent stance has gone unchecked. If anything, successive governments have only capitulated to their disgraceful demands.
Given this, the only effective solution would be a popular movement, comprising not just Dalits but all other Tamils sympathetic to their cause, to oppose specifically the Thevar community’s brutalisation of the public space, wherever it may occur. This can and ought to be a non-violent movement which, when it gains critical mass, will put sufficient pressure on the Government, political parties and the law enforcement machinery actually to enforce the existing laws.
Social atrocities cannot be countered by mere hyperventilating (more on this later).
2. The violence unleashed by the Dalit students can never be condoned, on any grounds whatsoever. Irrespective of whoever perpetrates violence, the State must enforce the law and give due protection to every citizen. If violence by Thevars has been overlooked by the police, as it indeed has been, we must force the police to through civil vigilance to make amends. We must mobilize and ensure participation of large sections of people to make this happen. HOWEVER, if the attackers on both sides in this case go scot-free, then there would be a free-for-all in which Dalits have more to lose than anyone else. I hope this is obvious enough.
Also, about the two instances of provocation that have been cited.
The first is the dropping of Dr. Ambedkar from the University’s name by the Thevar students’ association in their posters. Why should this be a provocation? The recognition and honour accorded to the great man has come from the Tamil people through the Tamilnadu government. It is unlikely that it will be changed to fulfil the casteist wishes of a specific community. The question is: do not the support of the public for their education and the honour accorded by society to Dr Ambedkar outweigh the silly shenanigans of a small group of students who would anyway get their degree certificates with Dr. Ambedkar’s name on them? Therefore, why be provoked when you are in a strong position.
Second: Dalit students being prevented from writing exams through threat of armed violence. To counter this, the Dalit students could have done one or more of the following: as soon as knives and rods started appearing on campus, the Dalit students could have gone on strike, given wide publicity to the development through their political backers, taken a procession down Anna Salai, picketed the Secretariat at Fort St. George and the Police Headquarters, etc. It is incredible that they encountered this crude thuggery on the part of Thevars like they would have in a remote village, without recourse to institutional mechanisms, without making their college grind to a halt. Any of the above would have been better for them than arranging for clubs and assaulting their adversaries in front of video cameras.
Atrocities can only be committed against the weak and the powerless. These students, whose education and stay in the students’ hostel are fully funded, cannot by any stretch of imagination claim to have been weak and powerless in the heart of metropolitan Chennai and inside their college campus. It is not at all clear why they chose not to hold any of the responsible agencies and institutions to account. Clearly, Dalits (and their supporters) must fight caste discrimination through means that are appropriate to the setting in order to be effective. We can readily agree that the incident has hardly done away with their problem.
In this regard, the conduct of the Dalit students has been immature and misguided. They should realize that they must hold the State and society to account, always; and not their determined oppressors who are the responsibility of the State. Dr. Martin Luther King marched on Washington to secure Civil Rights for Afro-Americans; he did not march on the Ku Klux Klan nor did he make moral appeals to them.
3. Full restoration of the rights and dignity of Dalits can happen only in three ways: capturing their due share of political power under the current political framework; deployment of our legal system and public institutions to protect Dalits against discrimination and against violation of their human rights in public spaces (including teashops); and indefinite continuance of affirmative action policies for both education and employment.
Obviously, the first two, on which adequate progress has not been made in Tamilnadu, can only happen through hard-headed strategizing and political mobilization not only of the community but their broad base of supporters. It is also true that the potential benefits of the third measure – reservations – are not reaching the community at large, especially in the form of strong leadership, number of role models for youth and expansion of the community’s sphere of influence. All this involves political acumen and hard work.
This being the need of the hour, what exactly is the point of false-hearted invocation of “thousand-year genotypes”, etc. as if it were some Revelation, as if it was of any use? People should ask themselves why political strategy and social action to counter atrocities and discriminatory practices is never discussed. Why, in their stead, caste bigotry and hate-mongering pass for progressive social thought all the time and everywhere in the State? The answers are not that hard to find.
4. The final lesson is that any debate can yield fruit only if it focuses on the empirical reality and not on some abstract notions. The reality is that we live, however imperfectly, in a secular republic, under a (mostly) secular Constitution and legal framework. It is through this framework that Brahmins in Tamilnadu, identified as enjoying caste privileges far beyond their due share, have been excluded from public life and employment in state government institutions and agencies over the past forty years. It is through the same framework that affirmative action and legal protection for the benefit of Daliits have been provided, at least in law. If we are to make any further progress at societal transformation, it can only be achieved through implementation of the same framework.
Instead, our civil society is reciting certain empty slogans – such as, ‘paarpaneeyam’ is at the root of all disparity – which have no basis in reason or reality. “Progressives” have to decide whether they want to address real-world issues in a concrete manner or waste their time in tasteless vilification of a specific community, which vilification is as much at odds with our political framework as discrimination against Dalits is. I am only raising this because anti-Brahminism has become the catch-all excuse for all social, political and intellectual failures of our society; it has made blatant dishonesty – such as Karunanidhi’s, for example – masquerade as progressive.
Protecting the Dalits would involve: raising awareness at all levels and building popular support; forcing all major political parties to take a stand on the question and give due representation to Dalits in their organisation; forcing the state government to deliver on all its obligations in this regard, including unbiased functioning of the police and the judicial system; condemning and establishing the non-acceptability of casteist discrimination; and much more. Bleating on about ‘paarpaneeyam’ will only ensure that nothing relevant gets done, as is indeed the case on all these fronts.
Thank you.
November 21, 2008 at 6:01 pm
i am indeed understanding more about the issue from the comments of all these people. but why are some bleating and moaning about parpaneeyam or brahminism when i had not even mentioned that silly area of social concern?
now that there is a legal mission set up to find facts and report on this case, perhaps we can just wait for justice to take its own natural course.
November 21, 2008 at 7:19 pm
You said that:
//but why are some bleating and moaning about parpaneeyam or brahminism when i had not even mentioned that silly area of social concern//
and you said this too
//உயர்ந்தவன், தாழ்ந்தவன் என்று சாதி ரீதியாக பிரித்து பயிற்றுவித்திருக்கும் பார்ப்பனியத்தின் விளைவாக நடக்கும் இந்தக் கொடுமைகளுக்கு//
and i thought MPD is bunkum. 🙂
November 21, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Dr. Rudhran:
My comments about people falsely implicating “paarpaneeyam” in every caste conflict irrespective of the perpetrators involved were not directed at you but at the large number of bloggers who indeed practise that unfortunate brand of sophistry.
At any rate, my intervention was primarily about a more rational approach to advancing the Dalit cause that has the potential to be effective. Blaming everything on the false bogey of “paarpaneeyam”, while letting the real perpetrators of caste violence off the hook along with their abettors in the political system, is the surest way to perpetuate caste violence in the state for another four decades.
I wanted to clear up this point.
November 23, 2008 at 8:03 am
I had been out of station and out of reach of computers. Hence this delayed response.
The title “dalit fury” says it all. It is the most apt title for the law college incident.
You have got it right. You have read the pulse of the society. Particularly the following lines are more revealing:
” Pragya and her prohit connections are not so shocking. Manmohan singhs shameless licking of bush is not repulsive. Karunanidhi’s constant political stunts are not worrying. Just the fact that dalit boys have dared to fight is shocking”.
The incidents also prove that TIMES have changed. Gone are the days when EVERYTHING was taken for granted.
I request your good selves to shed light on another dimension of this incident: “The inaction of the public who were there”. Everybody denounced the inaction of the police. But, what about the public? The incident didn’t happen in some jungle or desert or in hills. It happened in the heart of the city. There might have been hundred men who watched it and yet FAILED to RESPOND and REACT. They remained MUTE SPECTATORS!What is the root cause for this APATHY? Why we have become SO INDIFFERENT! Why do we expect that somebody else should response? Namakkayn vambu yengira nagarathu manobavam nilai petradhu yeppadi?
This is not the sole incident, either. It happened in the past too! Thattik ketpavargal, idiththu uraippavargal illaamal poivittargale, yane?
Kindly analyse this grim scenario.
November 23, 2008 at 5:49 pm
அரவிந்தன் நீலகண்டன் சமூகத்துக்கு இந்த தஸ்யுவோட தாழ்மையான சில கேள்விகள்,
1) அய்யா, அசுரன் அவர்கள் உஙகளின் வருணாசிரம கோவணத்தை உருவி இந்த பிளாக் வெளி எங்கும் அம்மணமாக ஓட விட்டாரே, அப்போது ஏன் நீங்கள் கையை வைத்து மறைத்துக்கொண்டீர்கள்?
2) தமிழ்மணி கும்பலில் மேன்மையுடையீரும் ஒரு அங்கம் என்பது இந்த பிளாக் வாசகர்கள் அனைவரும் அறிந்ததே!!! அதை இல்லை என்று மறுக்கிறீர்ளா?? ( ஆர்.எஸ்.எஸ் பாறை மண்டைகளுக்கு எதுவும் நினைவிலே இருக்காதா ? )
3} நீங்கள் ஜாதி வெறி தலைக்கேறிய ஒரு பிராணி என்று உங்களை தமிழ் மனத்தில் இருந்தே வெளியேற்றினார்களே அதை இல்லையென்று கூறுவீர்களா? (பாகிஸ்தான்காரனிடம் காசு வாங்கி இந்த சதியை செய்தார்கள் என்று கதை அளக்க வாய்பிருக்குது !!!!)
4) கருணாமூர்த்தி (அரவிந்தன் நீலகண்டன்) ஏன் ஒரு வருடங்களுக்கு மேலாக பிளாக் பக்கம் வருவதில்லை, ஒரு வேளை பி.எச்.டி பட்டம் காரணமாக வேலைப்பளு கூடிவிட்டதோ (இருக்கலாம்) ? நான் சொல்கிறேன் அசுரனிடமும், சம்பூகனிடமும் நீ புளுவாக துடித்த கணங்களை வாசகர்கள் மறப்பதர்க்கு ஒரு வருடம் தேவைப்பட்டதென்று. இதை நீ மறுக்க முடியுமா?
5} மேலே கேட்ட 4 கேள்விகளுக்கும் பெருந்தகையீர் ரோசமுள்ள இந்துவாக இருந்தால் (மன்னிக்கனும் இந்துவாக இருந்தால் ரோசம், மானம் இருக்காது என்பதை மறந்து விட்டேன்) பதில் சொல்லிவிட்டு பின்பு வந்து இங்கு கதை அலங்கள்.
5} இந்து மதம் என்பது உஙகளுக்கு வெள்ளைக்கார கிறித்துவன் வைத்த பெயர் தானே, ஆதலால் அதை பக்தியுடன் துறந்து விட்டு சனாதன தர்மம் அல்லது பிராமண மதம் என்று வைத்தே விவாதிக்க வாருங்கள் ரானா பிரதாப் சிங் அவர்களே, உங்களுக்கு இந்து மதம் அல்லது நீங்கள் கூறும் ஒரு வாழ்கை முறை எவ்வளவு வக்கிரமானது எவ்வளவு கொடூரமானது என்பதை திரை விலக்கி காட்டுகிறேன். (முதலில் உன் சனாதன திமிரை நீ விலக்கிவிட்டு பார்த்தாலே போதும் எது உண்மை என்பது புரியும்).
என்னை பொறுத்த வரை அரவிந்தன் நீலகண்டன் ஒரு உண்மையான இந்து என்பதால் இந்த கேள்விகளையும் தாண்டி தான் அவர் இனி யாருக்கும் பதிலோ அல்லது கேள்வியொ போடுவார்.
திரு. ருத்திரன் அய்யா அவர்களுக்கு….
ஏன் அய்யா இது மாதிரி பிணந்தின்னிகளுக்காக் உஙகள் பொன்னான நேரத்தை வீன் செய்கிறீர்கள். இவனை ஏற்கனவே பல முறை அம்பலப்படுத்தி ஊரே நாறிப்பான வெந்த பய இவன். அந்த கேள்விகளுக்கு அவன் பதில் சொல்லிவிட்டு உஙகளிடம் கேள்வி கேட்கட்டும். (ஏன் இந்த மாதிரி பேசுகிறேன் என்பது உஙகளால் புரிந்து கொள்ள முடியும் என்று நம்புகிறேன்) இவனை பற்றி அறிந்து கொள்ள மேலும் வாசியுங்கள்
Comrade Samboogan http://poar-parai.blogspot.com/
Comrade Asuran: http://sampoogan.blogspot.com/
எதும் ட்ரீட்மெண்டு இருந்தால் வேனா கொஞசம் சொல்லுங்க, பாவம் இன்னும் கொஞச நாளில் மன நோய் முற்றி செத்துகித்து போயிட போகுது.
November 24, 2008 at 11:14 am
ஆன்னா ஊன்ன்னா பார்ப்பான் சதி, பார்ப்பனீயம் இப்படி என்ன சொல்லுகிறோம் என்பது தெரியாமலேயே உளறிக் கொட்டுகிற கூட்டத்தில் நீங்களும் ஒருவராக இருப்பீர்கள் என்பது முதலில் ஆச்சரியமாக இருந்தது. அப்புறம் இல்லை.
என்ன எழுதினோம் என்பதும் தெரியவில்லை.பின்னூட்டங்கள் மூலமாகத் தான் விடயத்தை தெரிந்து கொண்டதாகவும் சப்பைக் கட்டு. நீங்கள் எழுதியதை ஒருவர் எடுத்துக் காட்டிய பிறகும் அதைத் திருத்திக்கொள்ள மனம் வரவில்லை. அய்யா, ஏன் என்று நான் கேட்கப் போவதில்லை.
அய்யா நீங்கள் மருத்துவர் தானே, கழகக் கண்மணி இல்லையே?!
வேறொருவர் பின்னூட்டத்திற்கு பதில் சொல்ல முனைகிறேன் என்று முதலில் அவருக்கு ஆங்கிலம் புரியவில்லை என்று ஆரம்பித்து அதற்கப்புறம் அவருக்கு மூளையே இல்லை என்று கண்டு பிடித்த உங்களிடம் இருப்பது என்ன இல்லாதது என்ன என்று அவருக்குத் தான் பாவம் தெரியவில்லை, உங்களுக்காவது முற்றுவதற்கு முன்னால் தெரிந்தால் சரி!
Cure thyself, before suggesting remedy to others, Mr.Rudhran.
November 24, 2008 at 4:40 pm
இது ஒரு சாதி மோதல் என்பதில் எந்த கருத்து வேறுபாடும் நமக்கு கிடையாது.இந்த தலித்துக்களுக்கு சூடும், சொரணையும் வந்து விடக்கூடாது என்ற ஆதிக்க சாதி மனப்பான்மையை இந்த சட்டக் கல்லூரி மாணவர்கள் உடைத்து காண்பித்தார்கள்.எவன் தொட்டால் தீட்டு என்றார்களோ…அவன் தான், இந்த நாட்டின் சட்டத்தை தீட்டோ தீட்டு என்று தீட்டினான்.ஆனால் இந்த ஆதிக்க சாதி இந்துக்கள் இன்னும் இவர்களை தாழ்த்தியே பிழைக்க வேன்டும் என்ற சாதிய வெறியோடு அலைகிறார்கள் என்பது தான் கொடுமை.முதலில் “அவனை கொல்லுங்கடா என்று வெறியோடு கத்தியை தீட்டிக் கொன்டு வந்தவன் அதிக்க சாதி வெறியன்.அவனிடமிருந்து தற்காத்துக் கொள்ளவே எந்த மாணவர்கள் வன்முறையை கையில் எடுக்க வேண்டி யாகிவிட்டது. இனிமேலாவது, ஆதிக்க சாதி வெறியர்கள் தங்கள் வன்கொடுமை வெறியை குறைத்து கொள்வது நலம்.
November 24, 2008 at 10:18 pm
ஒட்டக்கூத்தனுக்கு ஒரு கேள்வி:
உங்கள் பின்னூட்டத்தில் “ஆதிக்க சாதி” என்ற சொல்லாடலைப் பயன்படுத்தியுள்ளீர்கள். ”ஆதிக்க சாதி” எனும் சொல்லாடல் குறிப்பிடும் சாதிகள் எவையெவை என்பதையும் விளக்கினால் ந்ன்றாக இருக்கும்.
கத்தியைத் தூக்கிக்கொண்டு தலித்துகளுக்கு எதிராக வன்முறை செய்ய வந்தவர்கள் “முக்குலத்தோர் பேரவை” என்று சுவரொட்டியில் அச்சடித்துக்கொண்டுதான் வந்தார்கள். இக்கலவரத்தில் வேறு எந்த சமூகப்பிரிவினரும் இறங்கியதாகத் தெரியவில்லை. இந்த நிலையில், அவர்களின் அடையாளத்தை மறைத்து ”ஆதிக்க சாதி” என்று பொத்தாம் பொதுவாக எழுதவேண்டிய அவசியம்தான் என்ன?
நன்றி.
November 25, 2008 at 7:27 pm
maybe other communities did not enter the fight on that day! but see what happens atleast in the blog world.
why so much anger and concern suddenly? this is what i wanted to explore in my blog.
i have got my answers. there IS brahminism, and one need not be an iyer or iyengar to have that mentality.
i would love to answer even idiotic comments, but .. as some friends and comrades have suggested my time can be spent in more useful pursuits. i shall as is my policy allow all comments, but from this sentence onwards i shall not reply to anyone regarding this issue, in this blog.
November 26, 2008 at 11:19 am
http://renjithmn.wordpress.com/2008/11/12/an-election-year-indian-media-sleazy-pleasure-of-baiting-hinduism
November 26, 2008 at 7:10 pm
dear doctor
iyour site was introduced to me through thozhar mathimaaran
today i read your article.
உங்களின் வலைப்பதிவினைத் தோழர் வே.மதிமாறன் மூலமாக அறிந்தேன்.
டாக்டர் அம்பேத்கர் சட்டக்கல்லூரியில் நடைபெற்ற நிகழ்வு பற்றிய உங்களின் பதிவு சிறப்பானது.
தற்போதைய சூழலில் மிகத்தேவையானதும்கூட.மிக எளிதான ஆங்கிலத்தில்தான் எழுதியிருக்கிறீர்கள் என்றாலும்கூட, தமிழில் இருந்தால் இன்னும் சிறப்பாக இருக்கும் என்பது என் எண்ணம்.இருந்தாலும் ஆங்கிலத்திலிருப்பதால் மிகப்பரவலாக இச்செய்திகள் மக்களிடம் போய்ச்சேர கூடுதல் வாய்ப்புள்ளது என்பதால் மகிழ்ச்சியே
உங்களின் முற்போக்கான கருத்துகளை தொலைக்காட்சி வழியாகவும் இதழ்களின் வழியாகவும் ஏற்கனவே நான் அறிந்திருந்தாலும்கூட நீங்கள் வலைப்பதிவில் எழுதுவது இப்போதுதான் தெரியும் மகிழ்ச்சி வாழ்த்துகல். பாராட்டுகள்
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November 27, 2008 at 9:03 pm
krishnamoorthy சார் வணக்கம்,
அண்ணாத்த உஙக விச்னு தான் பத்து அவ்தார் எடுக்க முடியும்னு நென்ச்சுனு இர்ந்தேன், அரவிந்தன் நீலகண்டன் கூட 15 அவ்தாரம் எட்க முடியும் போல இக்குதே. உடனே “என்ன சார் பார்தேலே நான் ஒரு தனி ஆளு ஆனா எனக்கும் அரவிந்தன் நீலகண்டனுக்கும் தொடர்பு இக்குதுனு பில்டப் பண்றான் இந்த அபிஸ்டு பார்தேலே” என்று புலம்பாதீங்க கிச்சா ( நீ அரவிந்தன் நீலகண்டனாகவோ அல்லது கப்பி பய கிச்சாவாகவோ இருந்துட்டு போ), பார்பனிய பயங்கரவாதம் பத்தி விவாதிக்க தயாராடா? டேய் பார்த்த சாரதி இந்த டெகால்டி வேலையெல்லாம் இங்க நடக்காதுமா. போய் தமிழ் ஹிந்துல எழுது நல்லா ராகம் பாடுவானுக.
November 27, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Krishna pull… sorry mooorthy சார் வணக்கம்,
அண்ணாத்த உஙக விச்னு தான் பத்து அவ்தார் எடுக்க முடியும்னு நென்ச்சுனு இர்ந்தேன், அரவிந்தன் நீலகண்டன் கூட 15 அவ்தாரம் எட்க முடியும் போல இக்குதே. உடனே “என்ன சார் பார்தேலே நான் ஒரு தனி ஆளு ஆனா எனக்கும் அரவிந்தன் நீலகண்டனுக்கும் தொடர்பு இக்குதுனு பில்டப் பண்றான் இந்த அபிஸ்டு பார்தேலே” என்று புலம்பாதீங்க கிச்சா ( நீ அரவிந்தன் நீலகண்டனாகவோ அல்லது கப்பி பய கிச்சாவாகவோ இருந்துட்டு போ), பார்பனிய பயங்கரவாதம் பத்தி விவாதிக்க தயாராடா? டேய் பார்த்த சாரதி இந்த டெகால்டி வேலையெல்லாம் இங்க நடக்காதுமா. போய் தமிழ் ஹிந்துல எழுது நல்லா ராகம் பாடுவானுக.
November 28, 2008 at 8:55 pm
//there IS brahminism, and one need not be an iyer or iyengar to have that mentality.//
This is a very dangerous mindset. Why associate one caste one group with a social malaise? Hitler did that and now Dravdianists. Go into the historicity of caste conflict. British were more responsible in fact only British were responsible and not Brahmins. DMK fuelled the divide further. Jehadhis demolished statues of leaders to incite violence. So why blame Brahmins or Brahminism…Oh we can say it is all because of Manu smrithi. But a law evolves through million social dynamics and webs of relationships. There are Brahmin castes and sub-castes and warrior clans and trade guilds which have interacted and evolved these laws- which are not democratic nor non-partisan – but they are not cunning machinations of a single caste or ideology. If Manu can be linked to Ambedkar College violence then the blame should fall on all of us – not on one caste or one caste based demonized ideology. i can say this. because i am non-Brahmin.
//நான் சொல்கிறேன் அசுரனிடமும், சம்பூகனிடமும் நீ புளுவாக துடித்த கணங்களை வாசகர்கள் மறப்பதர்க்கு ஒரு வருடம் தேவைப்பட்டதென்று. இதை நீ மறுக்க முடியுமா?//
Just for record…i answer humans not sub-human brutes.
December 1, 2008 at 10:20 pm
The fighting on this blog is more violent than the student group fightings.
December 2, 2008 at 2:07 am
nice to know that our doctor started a site.
if anybody says brahminism or brahmin still tries to dominate our indian society is not true, then why still they are telling they only have the right to enter KARUVARAI of the temple and sanskrit is the language bywhich we can send our application to our god.
if they tell sc or any people become poosari in all our temple and our applications will be sent to god in tamil without our request then we think indian society take a first step towards all are equal model society
yours friendly-mathi
December 2, 2008 at 11:16 am
please all are be a mankind
December 5, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Sir,
I’ m really feel happy to see ur blog.
Thanks to science and Vikatan who introduced the good chance to me.
when i saw ur blog first i admired on ur english. Then i wondered about ur understranding on the issues based on ur knowledge.
December 5, 2008 at 5:00 pm
when i was 12 yrs old.Three people under influence of alchol damaged arounf 10 shops in the road and hit the people .No one dare to stop them .And on the next day
policed paraded them in the same street and hit them with their sticks(lathis).People who were there and don’t know the reason for it sympothised for the rogues. The samething happended in law college also .People are arguing dalits are reason for this.
But the truth is …..
Samething in Orissa also it was not clash between hindus and chrsitians .It’s between two castes our bjp/rss/vhp minded people and media made it different.
April 25, 2011 at 4:38 pm
Capabale, beating up the incapable, the strong
( physically or mentally ) bringing down or exploiting the weak , the superior (or the one who feels superior ) thrashing the inferior – every thing is condemnable…….Live and let live should be the predominant feeling in every human being. It pains to see a weaker or a helpless person being beaten up – for me the thought of caste or creed never arises at that juncture…….caste feelings should’nt be there at all and if it cannot be uprooted from your mind ,let it remain within the four walls of your home – but I find now a days such feelings have come down to streets……….
January 4, 2013 at 7:00 am
@ Narayanaswami
If you want this to stop you should listen to what people are telling.
Waking up a person who is sleeping is easy but to wake up some one who isnt is tough. some of the upper caste guys are really innocent we know that and some are not bothered others plain and simply know everything and still continues the same attitude is the real state of affair. Do you have a dalit friend have you ever stayed with him or been so close that you can understand his problem.